“apocalyptic prophecies where the OT prophet was mentioned by name”
Matthew 24 (Berean Literal)
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15 Therefore when you shall see ‘the abomination of desolation,’
having been spoken of by the prophet Daniel,
standing in the holy place–
the one reading, let him understand–
16 then those in Judea,
let them flee to the mountains;
17 the one on the housetop,
do not let him come down to take anything out of his house;
18 and the one in the field,
do not let him return back to take his cloak.
19 And woe to those having in womb,
and to the ones nursing infants in those days!
20 But pray that your flight might not be in winter,
nor on a Sabbath.
21 For then there will be great tribulation,
such as has not been from the beginning of the world until now,
and never shall be.
22 And unless those days had been shortened,
no flesh would have been saved;
but because of the elect, those days will be shortened.
“only prophet that Jesus mentioned by name was Elijah as being John the Baptist”
“Moses”
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Matthew (7)
Mark (8)
Luke (10)
John (12
“Jesus never mentions the prophet Daniel by name when speaking about the ‘son of man'”
Here, everybody knew exactly what remarks by Daniel were alluded to by Jesus:
Matthew 26 (KJV)
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63 But Jesus held his peace,
And the high priest answered and said unto him,
I adjure thee by the living God,
that thou tell us whether thou be
the Christ,
the Son of God.
64 Jesus saith unto him,
Thou hast said:
nevertheless I say unto you,
Hereafter shall ye see the Son of man
sitting on the right hand of power [better: Power, as in, God],
and coming in the clouds of heaven.
65 Then the high priest rent his clothes, saying,
He hath spoken blasphemy;
what further need have we of witnesses?
behold, now ye have heard his blasphemy.
66 What think ye?
They answered and said,
He is guilty of death.
Jesus mentioned the prophets Elisha and King David.
Luke 4:27 (HCSB)
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And in the prophet Elisha’s time,
there were many in Israel who had serious skin diseases,
yet not one of them was healed–
only Naaman the Syrian.”
John 7:41-43 (KJV)
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41 Others said, This is the Christ.
But some said,
Shall Christ come out of Galilee?
42 Hath not the scripture said,
That Christ cometh of the seed of David,
and out of the town of Bethlehem, where David was?
43 So there was a division among the people because of him.
Matthew 22 (Peshitta Holy Bible)
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41 But as the Pharisees were assembled,
Yeshua asked them,
42 And he said,
“What are you saying about The Messiah?
Whose Son is He?”
They were saying to him,
“The Son of David.”
43 He said to them,
“And how did David by The Spirit call him THE LORD JEHOVAH, for he said:”
44 ‘THE LORD JEHOVAH said to my Lord,
‘sit at my right hand until I place your enemies under your feet’?
45 “If therefore David called him THE LORD JEHOVAH,
how is he his son?”
46 And no man could give him an answer,
and no man dared again from that day to question him.
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Jesus mentioned several prophets in his teachings, including Elijah, Elisha, and John the Baptist.
He referred to John the Baptist as the one who would come in the spirit and power of Elijah, preparing the way for him.
Additionally, Jesus often referenced the prophets of the Old Testament to validate his teachings and actions.
“Daniel mentioned by name in Matthew 24 and Mark 13.
But not in Luke or John”
A more-complete picture is obtained by looking at all the relevant passages.
Lydia McGrew, _Hidden in Plain View: Undesigned Coincidences in the Gospels and Acts_ (2017), 277pp.
An undesigned coincidence is an apparently casual, yet puzzle-like “fit” between two or more texts, and its best explanation is that the authors knew the truth about the events they describe or allude to.
Connections of this kind among passages in the Gospels, as well as between Acts and the Pauline epistles, give us reason to believe that these documents came from honest eyewitness sources, people “in the know” about the events they relate.
Fulfillment of the Jewish apocalypse was thrown into the garbage can. Paul works on fulfillment of Jeremiah 31:27 Jeremiah 31:31 as fulfilled by Galatians 3:28. That is essentially The New Covenant mentioned in Jeremiah 31:27.
Η ΚΑΙΝΗ ΔΙΑΘΗΚΗ
It’s not really “new” anymore because it’s been almost 2000 years.
Paganism was judged to be a threat to the Empires’ national security because it was deteriorating the mental faculties of them as becoming demented and insane. It’s a reckless lifestyle full of drugs and STDs: things that cause severe brain damage that manifest more and more as the years go by.
…there are some indications that Jesus may have thought that the Temple in Jerusalem would ultimately be destroyed and replaced by a Temple not made by hands…
This sentiment finds expression far back into the Enochic material with its contrast between the corrupt Temple cult in Jerusalem and the Heavenly Temple. I betcha by Jesus’ day this idea was thoroughly absorbed into apocalypticism.
Not to belabor the point but this leads to my own pet theory that Jesus was “acting out” this coming destruction prophetically and that’s what must have initiated his arrest and execution.
“I’m not willing to label Jesus as a false prophet”
Was Jesus a False Prophet?
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More can be said about each of the details of the Olivet Discourse prophecy, but the key takeaway is that what Jesus predicted would take place “before this generation passed” seems to have actually occurred within forty years of his speaking.
(The prophecy is so precise, in fact, that some skeptics use it to date the gospels later than A.D. 70 to account for its accuracy!)
It’s internally inconsistent to say that both
1) Jesus prophesied by around AD 30 what’s prophesied in Matthew 24, and those prophecies were grossly mistaken,
and
2) Matthew 24 consist of remarks that were bogusly-ascribed to Jesus after AD 70.
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BDEhrman May 8, 2023 at 8:45 pm
Apart from the seven “undisputed” letters of Paul, all the books of the NT are generally thought to have been written after 70 CE;
intimations of the destruction of the temple can be found in all four Gospels; …
BDEhrman May 5, 2023 at 2:17 pm
Jesus preached lots of things, based on many ideas, views, interpretations of Scripture, and so on;
one aspectd of that was a prediction that he got wrong.
I’d be OK probalby with saying he made a false prophecy…
“question referencing the relevance of the Talmud”
I didn’t say this, and I think this is a very weak argument pertaining to Revelation’s date of being written:
“Israel’s Festal Imagery in the book.
Revelation is littered with allusions and echoes of Israel’s rich festal calendar. …”
Comment 96 and the composition, “Was Jesus a False Prophet?” by Douglas M. Beaumont are not persuasive.
Douglas M. Beaumont:
If nothing else, how can anyone take seriously the idea that everyone on earth saw Jesus “coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory” (Matt. 24:30)?
Steefen
The Temple was lost and Temple Judaism was lost.
That’s not great glory, that is true lowliness to lose the First, Second, and Third Jewish-Roman Wars and to fight amongst oneselves in the Jewish Civil War which contributed to Judea’s downfall.
Douglas M. Beaumont:
The inhabitants of Jerusalem were massacred (by the Romans and each other) and very few historical records remain from the Romans but those of Josephus—records showing that armies were seen in the clouds (Jewish Wars, VI.V.3). Likewise, the Roman historian Tacitus records the same in his Histories (V.13). While not said to be Jesus Christ himself, the fact that two independent enemies of both Jew and Christian reported something that sounds a lot like an angelic army (cf. Matt. 24:31) is impressive testimonial support.
It is important to note that Jesus’ “coming” here is not the same event as his final “return,” even though the terms sometimes get used interchangeably. Jesus himself threatened to “come” to unfaithful churches in judgment prior to his return in glory to judge the living and the dead (e.g., Rev. 2:26, 3:3). So a first century coming of Christ is neither historically impossible nor theologically problematic.
Steefen
In Matthew, the Parable of the Wicked Tenants appears in Chapter 21. The Olivet Discourse appears in Chapters 24 and 25.
Explain how both can be right.
BDEhrman
FreedomBen
evgendob
Robert
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