(13 votes, average: 4.62 out of 5)
Loading...I return now to questions about how early Christians “remembered” Jesus as they told and retold stories about him. People often claim that the Gospels must be accurate because they are based on eyewitness testimony that was carefully guarded to ensure its accuracy. But let’s think about that for a bit in realistic terms. Here is how I discuss the matter in my book Jesus Before the Gospels (Harper One: 2016).
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If during the 40-65 years separating Jesus’ life and the surviving Gospels, his sayings and deeds of Jesus were not memorized by his followers and then passed down, verbatim, through the church, and if they were not circulated accurately within informally controlled settings, how were they being told and retold?
One obvious point to stress, which has not occurred to everybody, is this: stories about Jesus were circulating even during his lifetime. Moreover, even then they were not being told only by eyewitnesses. When someone who saw Jesus do or say something then and told someone else who wasn’t there, it is impossible to believe that this other person was forbidden from sharing the news with someone else. Life just doesn’t work that way. Think about any public person you know: the President of the United States, a movie star, a famous author, or even just a popular (or even more, unpopular) university professor. People tell stories about them. And other people repeat the stories. Then other people repeat the stories. And the stories obviously are told in different words, every time. Thus, the stories change. Moreover, stories get made up. You don’t have to take my word for it. Ask any public figure. It is true that
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“In her expert judgment, based on all sorts of evidence she adduces, something like 97% of the people in Palestine in Jesus’ day could not read or write.”
It is quite something to see the Appeals to Authority here.
In medicine and science, where individuals seek the truth by trying to reproduce evidence, it is striking how often the claims of an “Expert” are debunked as false (see Ioannidis, Why Most Published Research Findings Are False, PLOS Medicine, 2005).
In the social sciences, it may be years before the claims of an “Expert” get around to being validated, or not.
That’s right. You have to look at her evidence if you want to decide whether it’s compelling or not. If it’s not, then you need good counter-evidence for some other position.
“People often claim that the Gospels must be accurate because they are based on eyewitness testimony that was carefully guarded to ensure its accuracy.” I’ve heard this claim by some of my evangelical friends. When I point out significant differences in the accounts of the same recorded event in the Gospels it’s entertaining to hear their reasoning for how they can all still be accurate.
Lots of arguments against them being written with eyewitnesses! You may want ot check out my book Jesus Before the Gospels. But yup, it’s a common claim. Always has been.
“stories about Jesus were circulating even during his lifetime.”
Since Jesus was from such a remote area and did not have many followers, I would guess that stories about him when he was living were very limited. It would seem that the “event ” that caused stories to be told about him likely started when people started saying that he was raised from the dead, right?
That’s pretty much my view too.
I recall when in elementary school, [around Saratoga, CA] Sunday School teacher taught us that the EMPTY Tomb was what was important in our faith.
My home “church” I did go to often spouted how many folks was reported to have seen Jesus.
That was historical truth!
Yes … and no. Evidence in recent years shows that some ancient narratives contain exceptionally accurate records. For example, the Klamath people have been retelling stories for 7,600 years of a time when there was no Crater Lake. Geologists have now determined that the former volcano, Mount Mazama, terminally erupted about that same time (5600 BCE) creating today’s landscape. One can find many more illustrations with a quick search.
You have to look at the evidence provided. The only way to know that a story told 7600 years after being originally told is told accurately is to find a written record of how it was told 7600 years earlier. It’s one thing for someone to *say* “this is exactly how it was told 7600 years ago” and to *prove* it. For this kind of thing, we’re looking for proof. (I’ve experienced hundreds of cases where people swear they are telling something exactly as it happened months ago that they get precisely wrong; the fact that they swear it’s right isn’t evidence, if you see what I mean.)
Today if a group of 20 or so dedicated followers of an obscure charismatic cult leader who had died became convinced that this person had come back to life for a few days and then gone back to the cosmos began spreading the word by mouth, the effort would almost surely fizzle out and quickly come to naught. Yet when the 20 or so dedicated followers of an apocalyptic preacher in rural Palestine some 2000 years ago did the same thing, the effort did not fizzle out. Rather the concept took hold to the point that it spread throughout the western world and remains an immensely powerful force to this day. How do we explain the difference?
I explain how it happened in my book Triumph of Chrsitianity. (One thing to realize is that the fact that people started believing it en masse decades and especially centuries later has no bearing on whether it happened or not, any more than the the fact that the belief that Mohammed ascended to heaven is shared by nearly 2 billion people today is evidence that it really happened.)
I went back and reread Chapters 4 and 5 of the Triumph of Christianity. I think you’ve convinced me. Even so, the spread of Christianity is still an amazing phenomenon.
Yup!
The Triumph of Christianity will be next on my reading list. Thanks!
I wonder about this a lot. I´m Catholic and my Church is big on “Tradition”. Virtually everything is explained with reference to the “Tradition”. Even the meaning of the gospel verses comes from the “Tradition”. “Tradition” is effectively oral-tradition. No two priests will give you word for word the same answer when quoting from the tradition. How much must the information have changed then over a long time? I was once told that the “meaning” was what mattered not the exact words. Hmm… This is what bugs me: 2000 years and no one bothered to write this “Tradition” down? They tell me (priests) there is really no central administration of “Tradition” or handbook (for old Cardinals with memory issues). Church history tells us that attempts were made to write it down but alas no. These pondering´s remind me of my families Christmas tradition, maintained by my mom, concerning cookies and baked goods for Christmas. We were strict with our “Tradition”. These last years various relatives have some interesting “Traditions” supposedly originating with my mom. Great cakes and cookies but their not from my mom´s pantry.
Dr. Ehrman,
Are you familiar with the book, “The Gospel of the Beloved Companion: The Complete Gospel of Mary Magdalene,” translated from the original Greek by Jehanne deQuillan? It is a stunning gospel that rings with authenticity and provides provocative cross-comparisons to the canonical gospels (particularly the gospel of John) and the Gnostic gospels, especially the gospels of Thomas and Mary. The story of the non-orthodox Christian community that has followed these teachings for centuries is also compelling. This is not the faddish, pop-culture Mary Magdalene stuff. I would love to hear your take on it. – Rev. Paula Mekdeci
I looked at it a bit; the so-called first century Gospel is not authentic but made up.
This discussion is a course of logical reasoning that has little if any chance of influencing the believers who hold to the inerrancy belief.
Jesus “said”:
“John 14:26 (NASB95)
“But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all that I said to you.
So there, you see, problem solved! The Bible says so.