I’ve been discussing the kinds of evidence that textual critics appeal to in order to make a decision concerning what an author originally wrote, when there are two or more different forms of the text – that is, where a verse or passage is worded in different ways in different manuscripts. And I have been using the passage found (only) in (some manuscripts of) Luke of Jesus’ bloody sweat as an example. Yesterday I discussed one kind of “internal” evidence. Remember: external evidence deals with figuring out which manuscripts have which reading: how many manuscripts (not so important), age of the manuscripts, geographical distribution of the manuscripts, and (something I didn’t discuss) quality of the manuscripts. And recall that internal evidence is of two kinds, the first of which is “intrinsic probabilities,” which seeks to establish which form of the text is more likely to have been written by the author himself.
The second kind of internal evidence is a kind of flip side of the coin, and it’s called “transcriptional probabilities.” With arguments/evidence of this kind the question is not which reading is more inherently likely to go back to the author; instead it is which reading is more inherently likely to have been created by a scribe or scribes.
The deal is this: a lot of times when there are variant readings for a verse, one of the readings is really hard to understand, or grammatically incorrect, or contains a historical error, or presents a theological view that later came to be seen as dubious, whereas the other reading is easy to understand, grammatically correct, has no historical problems, and presents a perfectly acceptable theological view. Now, this criterion may seem backwards, but it’s one of the best in the business: it is the *more difficult* reading that is more likely original than the less difficult one. The one that is hard to figure out or that has grammatical, historical, or theological problems is more likely to be the one the author originally wrote. And why is that? Because scribes who were changing the text were more likely to make it better – if they were consciously changing it – rather than worse; they were more likely to try to *correct* problems than *create* them.
This criterion has been around for over 250 years, and it has proven right time and time again: the earliest manuscripts (discovered since the rule was first formulated) tend to have the more difficult readings, which get smoothed out over time by sharp-minded copyists.
This criterion involves “transcriptional probabilities” because….
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I get what you’re saying about the Docetic view being the spark that created this interpolated verse and it makes sense to me, but who was fooled by it’s insertion when it occurred? Surely there were many Christians who knew the story from Luke and would have raised concerns that all of a sudden a “new” verse appears in Luke’s Passion Narrative. But, I guess those concerns probably did occur widely, but since what we know as orthodoxy won out we just don’t have any written complaints by the Docetists. Even among proto-orthodox churches surely the congregations were absolutely aghast at a new verse appearing out of the ether to support the big heresy of the day! Church leaders back then probably had no shame just as today….
My guess is that very few people (anyone?) had Luke’s Gospel memorized, so they probably didn’t realize that this hadn’t been there before.
If variants among the verses were not very uncommon then scribes and knowledgeable Christians may not have been too alarmed when “sweat like drops of blood” suddenly turned up in Luke, especially if it seemed familiar in light of the other gospel accounts of Jesus’ “passion”.
doc ehrman
could not the church father argue that the interpolated verses went back to jesus’ followers? and if he was a respected church father wouldn’t the people accept his claims?
if a scribe is interpolating text does the scribe have a feeling that other anti-orthodox views are dominating in debate/argument?
is it also possible that the scribe may think that 50-50 years later his interpolation may help his christian brethren win arguments ?
1. Yes, he could! 2. Yes indeed. and 3. Yes again!
Many church leaders suffer shame. To make this statement, “Church leaders back then probably had no shame just as today….” is a mean-spirited, sweeping, prejudicial, untrue comment.
Hi,
This is fascinating and fun stuff! I am really enjoying this series of posts.
Just for the sake of the argument, wouldn’t Marcionite scribes be very much willing to remove this passage from Luke?
Thanks a lot, as always.
Great question. I had to deal with it in my discussion in Orthodox Corruption. Short answer: none of the mss that lack it show any Marcionite tendencies otherwise, and as a rule it’s thought that Marcionite copies didn’t survive….
Another quick question just to make sure I got this right: transcriptional probabilities encompass the changes in the text that scribes deliberately made in response to the debates/polemics/interests of their own times. Kind of? Thanks.
Yes, those changes certainly. But *also* the accidental changes that scribes made, simply by mistake (which is the vast majority of changes.)
Apologies for arriving late to the party. But I am curious to know what you make of Clare Clivaz’s argument that P69 which lacks vv. 22-24 reflects Marcionite redaction of this pericope (HTR 2005). Jason BeDuhn seems to have expanded it in his ‘Marcion’s First New Testament’.
I’m afraid I haven’t read Clivaz’s work carefully.
“This criterion has been around for over 250 years, and it has proven right time and time again: the earliest manuscripts (discovered since the rule was first formulated) tend to have the more difficult readings, which get smoothed out over time by sharp-minded copyists.”
I don’t *doubt* this, but I’m not clear as to how it could ever be *proven* right. By “first known uses,” as in the case you cite? Have there been a great many cases where something that helpful was discovered?
Well, I’m using “proven” in a broad, general sense, not in a scientific sense. But it is striking that the harder readings are the ones found in the earliest and best manuscripts, and these readings get changed in later manuscripts. Lots of examples of that….
perfect post for this morning bart, you analogies of monty python are humorous lol you know who I think monty python people are lol , are the people who deny god every day and tell millions that he is not real and actually think your getting accepted to heaven hahah. thats monty python. so with your Princeton education all you got from it is just ability to math and write better and other things , wish Princeton would have taught you all to be a believer, so what I’m trying to say is, ” if your against me. your against he, and those at Havard, Princeton, etc the most educated is the one that believes the most, start there. just blogging is all
Hello,
How did you keep track of all the aspects, bits of information, concepts, interpretations etc? It seems to me just keeping order to the interpretations, dates, conditions of manuscripts, and all the other parts of the research you have discussed must’ve been monumental?
And putting it all together to come to a reasonable well thought out conclusion in itself must have been tremendously fascinating. Was it all documented as you went through each segment of the point you were researching? Computer programs? Are there piles of previously written research that was incorporated?
I truly am impressed. Love learning about this stuff…..
Thanks Bart
Well, it’s my day job. 🙂
Your analysis makes sense to me.
Why were the proto-orthodox so obsessed with stifling their opposition who they labeled heretics? Why did they want there to only be one way of thought? It seems to me that it might be similar to today, that it was due to the desire for power and money. Especially since religion was completely joined together with government back then.
My sense is that it had nothing to do with money (since no money was involved); but it did have to do with knowing who was *right* since being right had eternal consequences, in their opinion.
It seems they were willing to murder to be “right?”
Dr. Ehrman: In the context of those debates, which form of the text seems more likely serviceable to proto-orthodox scribes? Clearly the one where Jesus is show to be sweating blood
Steefen: The problem is hematohidrosis is a very rare condition. As such, Jesus doesn’t become commonly human. Besides, he bled when he was beaten when held in custody by Rome; and, he bled when he was nailed to the cross.
“His sweat became like drops of blood falling on the ground.” The “like” removes all serviceability to the proto-orthodox scribes. We don’t even have hematohidrosis here.
So, let’s look at this simile; for, that’s what it is.
Perspiration leaves the body at its rate.
Blood leaves the body at a faster rate with a more constant flow.
Perspiring like bleeding means the sweat is coming down at a faster rate than normal, constantly, despite any modulation in temperature or breeze in the Garden of Gethsemane, or where have you.
Right! The point is that he is in very deep agony, not that he is literally sweating blood.