In my previous post I indicated that I was a bit disappointed at my public debate with Michael Bird at New Orleans Baptist Theological Seminary that he did not propose an alternative solution to “How Jesus Became God,” some other sense of how it happened different from the one I proposed. If he disagrees with my scenario, what scenario does he himself imagine? I’m not sure.
Part of the problem is that he himself said during the debate that Jesus did not go around during his public ministry saying something like “Hello – I’m God, the Second Member of the Trinity.” That’s exactly right, he certainly didn’t. But later Christians were saying that about him. So how do we get from point A to point B?
I don’t see any viable alternative to the one I mapped out (I’ll point out in a second where Michael does disagree with it, even if he doesn’t propose an option). It is clear as day from Mark’s Gospel that…
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Michael Bird’s most popular books are The New Testament in Its World: An Introduction to the History, Literature, and Theology of the First Christians, and Introducing Paul: The Man, His Mission and His Message.
Dr Ehrman, I thought your arguments in the debate were crystal clear. As a lay person I could not figure out what Michael Bird was arguing for. I understood he was against adoptionism which I found difficult to understand. Even an unschooled reading of the relevant texts suggests that Paul believed Jesus was declared or exalted God’s son at the resurrection. What strikes me as odd is that your arguments may actually be helpful for the survival of Christianity (albeit in a different form ), if evangelicals were not so committed to biblical inerrancy. What I further find confusing and perhaps you can help – Michael Bird seems to concede in the debate that John’s gospel is not to be taken literally but is somewhat of a mystical portrait of Jesus. If that is true of John’s gospel, then it begs the question as to how he can then accept the other gospels as literally true ?
Very thought-provoking post!
When we say they thought he was *made* a divine being, did they think, for a lack of a better word, that his *nature* changed (he was no longer human after his resurrection), or that his *status* changed–that had been given a status equal with the divine?
On another note, it seems like John has a different view than Paul regarding Jesus’ body (Jesus points to the scars on his body in John, suggesting it was thought by John to be the same body).
My sense is that the earliest followers of Jesus did not have any philosophical knowledge or wherewithall, and probably wouldn’t even think in terms of “nature” or “essence.” They just thought God had made Jesus divine. If pressed, they might have had trouble differentiating nature and status. Just my guess.
Mark, isn’t it possible that Jesus did not think he was the Messiah–or wasn’t sure he was–but his disciples believed he might be, were hoping that he was?
I’ve mentioned this before, but Peter is angry when Jesus says he’s going to be killed. Why? Upset, certainly. But Peter seems infuriated his master would say such a thing. Obviously any man can be killed, life being extremely cheap in the world they both inhabit, and they both are aware of the recent execution of John the Baptizer, Jesus’ former master.
Peter thinks Jesus is the Messiah–in fact, he’s the one who in another story is the first to say so, and Jesus says that for this he shall be the rock of Jesus’ church, but would Jesus have said that? He’s not trying to form a new religion, we know that now. So that’s an invention, added to justify Peter’s later position. Peter’s belief that Jesus is Messiah might not have been invented, though. He might have been a particularly strong advocate for this view, without Jesus directly supporting it. Jesus would have had to deal with internal politics in his small group, just like any cult leader. It’s actually one of the more interesting sub-strains of the gospel story, the conflicts between the disciples, each with their own idea of who the man they’re following really is. (Judas’ ideas must have been very interesting).
So Peter is right to protest this claim of Jesus that he will be killed soon–how can he be? He’s the Messiah! And Jesus’ response to this perfectly reasonable protest (reasonable in context) is that Peter is Satan. He’s making a connection between Peter’s statement and his own story about how he was tempted in the desert by Satan (perhaps in a vision). He would like to believe both of them, but he knows it’s wrong. His destiny is to die. God has called him to this, and he can’t weaken. He’s angry at Peter for trying to make him question this. Whether he’s the Messiah or not–and I think he doesn’t really know what to believe about this–he knows he’s being called to sacrifice himself. As his master John did before him, but this sacrifice will mean more. Will achieve more. Or so he wants to believe.
I’m not saying this is a proven fact, but is it an impossible scenario, based on what we know?
And just to make the above fully on-topic, as I should have done to start with, could this be why some of Jesus’ followers began to see visions of him after the crucifixion? Because they were so sure he was the Messiah, that they could not accept he was dead? Since they did not believe the Messiah could die, they unconsciously decided Jesus had conquered death itself. And having made this unconscious choice, they then used the visions to make the conscious choice to redefine what being Messiah really meant.
Yes, it’s hard to psychoanalyze them — but this could be part of it!
I’m not quite sure what you’re asking, but Peter appears to object to the idea of Jesus being killed because the messiah was supposed to be the victorious warrior who destroyed his enemies, not someone who would be tortured to death by his enemies.
I seem to recall you saying that not all visions of the Messiah said he’d be a warrior in the literal sense. But yes, Peter is objecting because Jesus is saying he’ll be killed by his enemies, and as Peter and most other Jews of the time would see it, the Messiah can’t die, at least not before he’s achieved his purpose. The story hints at a real source of conflict between Jesus and his disciples. Jesus began to adopt this more fatalistic mindset, perhaps in the wake of John’s execution, but since his followers probably had never met John, or at least had no deep connection to him, the death was not so real to them, and did not have the same significance.
Guesswork is fun, but it’s not everything. How much of this is about these people who lived long ago, and how much is about us, and how we feel about things today?
Memory scholars ahve long known that what we recall about the past (and how we recall it) is radically dependent on what we are experiencing in the present…
Mr Ehrman.
One of the Greek words used in connection with the resurrection of Jesus is; Strong G450 ἀνίστημι – anistēmi.
In the Septuaginta we find a variation of this greek word used in Nathan’s Messiah Prophecy; ἀναστήσω – anastēsō.
2 Samuel 7:12 When your days are over and you rest with your ancestors, I will raise up(ἀναστήσω) your offspring to succeed you, your own flesh and blood, and I will establish his kingdom.
Nathan’s Prophecy can therefore be interpreted as follows: “I will resurrect your offspring to succeed you”.
The only question is – which offspring? David had, after all, seventeen sons.
The word literally simply means “to raise up” (not “resurrect from the dead”)
Like most Christians he probably hasn’t thought it through logically or within the context of how people thought 2000 years ago. He didn’t give an answer because he doesn’t have one. He just BELIEVES because all the other Christians say they believe too. I actually think most of them don’t but they want to stay in the club.
One more thing, Just to answer your main question.
Mr Ehrman:”It is clear as day from Mark’s Gospel that during his public ministry, no one understood who Jesus was.”
Well, this is precisely according to the prophecy of Isaiah!
Isaiah 53:
Who has believed our message
and to whom has the arm of the Lord been revealed?
(…)
who considered
that he was cut off out of the land of the living,
stricken for the transgression of my people?
DR Ehrman:
YOUR COMMENT:
I will deal with our disagreement on the point in my next post, where I argue that the earliest followers of Jesus believed he had been made the Son of God at his resurrection.
MY COMMENT:
I think the accuracy of the answer to the question about who Jesus really is, depends on which manuscripts are employed to arrive at that answer. If the documents used aren’t historically factual then the conclusion will be fickle and mere speculation at best. You can’t determine who Jesus really claimed to be relying on contradictory and fictitious written records. To ascertain the true nature of who Jesus was and claimed to be we must have historically correct accounts from eye-witnesses of Jesus very words. Do we have such records? I believe we do? Is so-called “Mark” one of these records? I don’t believe so!
I disagree that it depends on which manuscripts we choose to go by. It’s not a matter of which but a matter whether any of them can really tell who Jesus was. The simple facts that who he was changes so much warns us that the task of finding out might be impossible. Of course, Luke Timothy Johnson argues that the real Jesus and knowing the real Jesus is not dependent on scripture at all.
I don’t think it’s a matter of WHO JESUS REALLY WAS. Obviously he was a flesh-and-blood man like every other human who ever existed. It’s about WHOM PEOPLE BELIEVED HE WAS, as prof Ehrman states. That is ALL the writings can tell us.
I’ve read a few posts that Bird made about Mark’s Christology on the patheos website. He describes what he believes to be in the text but doesn’t explain WHY he thinks as he does. He also uses terms like “kyricentricity” to describe Jesus. I cracked up at Dustin Martyr’s reaction to using the term: “Despite my attempts to really get at what Bird is saying this word (which Darth Vader would describe as a ‘technological terror you’ve constructed’) I cannot seem to lock down what is intended.”
Perhaps I’m overly critical, but I don’t understand why he engaged in a debate without having any substance to his answers.
Do you consider the Gospel of Thomas as authentic (and I use this word loosely given what I’ve read and I ask tentatively because I am way behind on my reading here) … maybe better is ‘on equal footing’ as the four Gospels? If so, Jesus refers to himself as Divine in verse 30 Jesus said, “Where there are three deities, they are divine. Where there are two or one, I am with that one. “Would that not indicate that he considered himself not only Divine but part of a “God Head?”
I have to keep reminding myself about early Christian followers including the disciples … they were largely illiterate and prone to literal interpretation of what quite possibly be considered in other traditions mystical events. There seems to be a continual need to “connect the dots” and doing so in a simplistic fashion.
I think we need to treat Thomas just like we treat all the early Gospels — it may contain authentic sayings of Jesus, but each one needs to be tested by our criteria. V. 30 doesn’t seem to pass the criteria very well….
Have you treated Thomas? (I might have missed it)
Yup; I have a chapter on it in Lost Christianities. Now I would want to rewrite the chapter in some rather important ways (I no longer think of Thomas as a Gnostic Gospel, for technical reasons) (though my basic interpretation of its meaning is pretty similar to what it was)
You no longer think of Thomas as a Gnostic Gospel? I hope you’ll devote a post to explaining that!
Oh… It would be interesting to know what you think now.
So my view now is that if a document doesn’t spell out in some detail (or at least refer to) the Gnostic cosmogony, then it’s hard to know whether it should be considered gnostic or not.
How can one achieve salvation according to the Gospel of thomas?
By learning the meaning of the secret teachings of Jesus.
Is it possible Michael thinks your book is about how Jesus *actually* became God, rather than how people came to believe he was God?
I think at the end of the day he understands what I’m arguing.
You’ve written that the Gospel of John is believed to be stitched together from different sources and that the seams of this are visible in certain verses. Are scholars able to say “this section is older than that one”? I’m wondering in particular about the “I am” statement Jesus makes in John and how it alludes to God telling Moses “I am”. Biblical literalists immediately go to John (completely ignoring the synoptics) for their “proof” that Jesus and God were one. I was wondering if there is any way to date the “I am” statement to definitively later than Mark.
Yes, that is part of what scholars argue. The Prologue (1:1-18), the I am sayings, etc. appear to be later than, say, the call of the disciples in 1:35-52, where there is not a hint of Jesus being divine.
Hello,
If Bird agrees with you that Jesus did not go around calling himself God, then the debate should be over at that point. Because if later people claim that he was God(or became God), they are effectively saying they know Jesus better than himself.
I think the deal is that we weren’t debating whether Jesus was God, or whether he could be God if he didn’t say he was God. We were debating how people came to *think* he was God (whether he was God or not).
Yeah…Right.Although the two are related in some ways.
Prof Ehrman
Given that the question driving Mark is how Jesus can be the messiah doesn’t it follow that Mark’s intended audience were Jewish converts? Since pagan gentiles would have had no Messianic expectations would they have needed to be convinced that they needed to modify those expectations?
thanks
I don’t think Mark’s audience could be Jewish — or that Mark could be Jewish — because of the (mis)information he provides in Mark 7, where he informs his readers that all the Jews wash their hands before eating. If they were Jews, he wouldn’t have to tell them this. If he were a Jew he would know that it’s actually not true.
Yes, I do see the problem. But unless I’m misunderstanding you, you’re saying that Mark presupposes at least some familiarity with pre-Easter Jewish Messianic expectations on the part of his audience. If so what pagan gentile community would combine that familiarity with an ignorance of Jewish cultural practices?
thanks
The audience would have been made up of *Christians* — as such, they would have been people who would have been told about the Jewish Jesus and how he was the messiah and savior.
If he was writing to gentiles, could it be that the narrative about Christ’s passion was something like the “test and quest” stories typical os classic mythology heroes? Thanks!
There *are* parallels!
Dr. Ehrman,
When it comes to the post-crucifixion narrative I try to put myself in the position of the disciples, similar to how a detective might try to put herself into the position of the murderer. I start off with the assumption that the disciples believed three key things right up to the point of Jesus being arrested and executed.
1) The Kingdom of God was coming anyday now. It could be tomorrow; it could be next week; it could even be next month, but it is, for sure, this year. Jesus’ role in this case was as a prophet who assured the disciples of this “fact”, so as long as Jesus was with them the disciples knew they had a hotline to God.
2) When the Kingdom arrived God would separate the righteous from the unrighteous. The righteous would be allowed to remain and abide in the new paradise on earth, while the unrighteous would be struck down in the terrible war between God and Satan’s forces, and the bodies of the unrighteous would be thrown onto the fire to burn to ash, to never rise again. Jesus’ role in this case was to be something like an advocate for his disciples. That is, since Jesus was such a holy man, with a hotline to God, Jesus could and would vouche for and defend his followers on Judgment Day, as an attorney would his client, and God would then favor the disciples being judged “righteous” enough to enter the Kingdom.
3) All the righteous — צדיקים — dead (i.e. the Jewish saints) would then be raised from the dead, to live eternally in God’s Kingdom. Jesus clearly wouldn’t have a role here, because he would still be alive when the Kingdom arrived? Right?
So, now let’s consider how these three factors would need to change post-crucifixion for the disciples to continue in their faith.
1) The arrival of the Kingdom of God would now need to be postponed indefinitely, contingent on any number of events that the disciples are now left on their own to figure out — because Jesus was no longer there to offer his authoritative voice. Solution? Jesus would still be able to talk to them and prophesy to them in (holy) spirit form, reassuring them of the coming Kingdom and giving them advice on matters as the movement readjusted.
2) Jesus would still be there to vouche for and defend his followers, because upon the Day of Judgment, Jesus will be there, now in his immortal spirit form, to vouche for and defend his people before God. That’s why the very early church kept stressing loyalty to Jesus, because it was Jesus, in spirit form, who was going to return to defend and vouche for all those who stayed loyal to him.
3) Well, clearly Jesus was no longer going to still be alive when the Kingdom comes, but since all the righteous were going to be resurrected, and Jesus was obviously a righteous man, then Jesus was also going to be resurrected. But since Jesus also had to be the advocate for all his loyal followers it would make sense that Jesus would need to be resurrected before Judgment Day. And since Jesus had to be one of the resurrected that means his body must have been properly buried in a stone tomb like a proper righteous Jew. And (in the disciples minds) that would mean Jesus couldn’t have been thrown into a mass grave or burned outside the city with the garbage. And since the disciples (believed they) saw Jesus coming to them in dreams and visions (#1), that must mean he had already been resurrected in (holy) spirit form and was advising them from the heavenly abode already.
Once you put all those pieces together, it not only makes the gospels’ post-crucifixion narrative understandable, it almost makes it inexorable.
Professor Ehrman,
Did the followers of Jesus believe in a general bodily resurrection of the dead at the end of time,to be followed by immortal reward in Heaven or immortal punishment in Hell?
If so, they might well have believed only that Jesus was specially favoured, so that he had been given his resurrection and reward early; in other words, they might well have thought he had been gifted with the special transformation that all of them would later undergo (unless they ended up damned, of course :-)). This would make him special, but he would have a long way to go before becoming a “god” for them.
Thanks!
Yes, they probably did. That’s why they called Jesus the “first-fruits of the resurrection.” One conclusion they drew is that since he was the first, everyone else will soon follow. But apart from the question of when the end will come, is the issue of what they came to think about Jesus as the one first raised. What I’m arguing in the debate is that before they believed he was raised they did not think he was divine, and after he was raised they did. So the resurrection is the key to Christology.
Right, thanks.
The problem I am still facing is this: if Jesus was “the first-fruits of the resurrection”, then his being raised from the dead was just a version — clearly a more distinguished version — of what was meant to happen to all people at some point.
But if that is right, then Jesus’ resurrection can’t be what motivated others to think of him as a divine being, since they would be going through the same process at some point, (and some even said many saints went through the very same process soon after Jesus was raised.)
Why wouldn’t the disciples just think of his resurrection as God’s vindication of Jesus in the face of the ultimate humiliation he experienced on the cross? This is the view of his resurrection I found in the Pseudo-Clementines, and it doesn’t require that Jesus get all of God’s power and glory.
In a nutshell: a belief in Jesus’ resurrection just doesn’t seem to be nearly enough to account for the belief that God had given Jesus all his power and glory — something else had to be going on if that is what the disciples really believed after his resurrection.
Actually, there were Christians who thought at the resurrection people would be made into “angels” — that is, divine beings who would never die.
My guess from reading Dr. Bird’s book and hearing his argument at the debate on youtube: The author of Mark and the disciples thought that Jesus was God incarnate because Jesus did things only God can do, namely forgive sins, and also “demons” recognized Him. NO, I DON’T THINK THIS ARGUMENT IS CONVINCING! What in the world are “demons”? Your appropriate response would be: If someone were God, wouldn’t it be very important to make this extraordinary event crystal clear in the Gospel of Mark?
Look, one of your cardinal features is that when you develop a point, such as ancient Biblical texts are different (“Misquoting Jesus”) or there are contradictions in the Gospels (“Jesus, Interrupted”) or that the earliest Christianities were different (“Lost Christianities”), or that there were other Gospels not accepted into the Bible (“Lost Scriptures”) or that six of Paul’s epistles were forged (“Forged”), you present overwhelming evidence about your point and, yet, all too often this evidence gets completely ignored as people try, using confirmation bias, to retain the views they already hold.. I find this denial of overwhelming evidence to be quite frustrating to say the least, but it is the way the world “turns.” I think Dr, Bird, despite his remarkable sense of humor and likable personality, may be doing this.
Off topic from Christology: I’m curious what the earliest Christians thought of the concept of the Holy Spirit. The Spirit seems to be thrown by the wayside until Constantinople. Was he/it mostly just left as an enigma? Did the Jewish concept prevail here? Were people too wrapped up in Christological debates for the first two centuries after Jesus to care about this other character? I know you you have a kazillion questions thrown at you, but perhaps we could get into a little Pneumatology in the near future. Thanks!
It’s hard to know because the earliest Christians don’t lay out a detailed theology of the Spirit.
This is what I wrote on a Members’ Forum discussion concerning this subject.
‘To my small mind, and talking to Christians of different persuasions over the years, the three in one might be described thus: the Father is the ineffable and unimaginable creator of all things; Jesus is the personification of God, who allows us to comprehend Him and His nature to a degree; the Holy Spirit is God entering me and communicating His wishes to me and who guides me through this vale of tears.’
This is obviously the view of SOME Christians, who think about such things, TODAY, not orthodox Christians of the time of the early church fathers.
Dr Ehrman, love your books.
Question: what do the historical figures like Socrates, the Bal Shem Tov, King Arthur, Sherlock Holmes, Santa Claus, and Jesus have in common?
Among other things, they are all admirable charactors created by later writers. They never wrote anything themselves. They either are completely fictitious charactors or have fictitious and unverifiable biography’s. If you think about it, real historical charactors who we have a lot of historical information about, are much less likely to be exalted due to the popular common sence and their reality principles.
If nothing can be checked out (they can’t speak from the grave) than the imagination is free to create the kind of character that will best sell. If the fictional character is based on a once living person, so much more convincing. Jesus’s character was based on the Greek charactor of Socrates and Hebrew figures in the Hebrew Bible. How could’ve the NT authors have found a better mix?
For some of those figures, there is historical evidence: Baal Shem Tov and Jesus, for example. AS it turns out, I have a discussion of them in relationship to each other in my book Jesus Before the Gospels, coming out next week!
Haven’t read your next post yet. But it seems to me that Bird is influenced – can’t help being influenced – by his personal belief that Jesus actually was divine, all along. And maybe, that the people he encountered should have sensed it (and some of them did), even though he wasn’t making any claims.
It always puzzled my why Mark ended the the way it did while 16:9-20 and the other three gospels end with post-resurrection physical appearances but you explained it succinctly: he had returned to heaven. Is it fair to assume, then, that the post-resurrection physical appearances recorded elsewhere are apologetic responses to doubters and/or efforts to round out Mark’s original “deficiency”?
Maybe not to Mark itself, but certainly the appearances are meant to show that Jesus REALLY DID rise from the dead.
Dr. Ehrman – I’m no Bible scholar, but in the late 1970s I took a course on the New Testament at Harvard from Rev. Peter Gomes. I had grown up in the heart of the Bible belt, but was not a believer. However, I had an academic interest in the Bible, and I certainly had views on it.
Rev. Gomes shook those views. His course had a central theme that is entirely consistent with your remarks, and I remember his tag line to this day (which I thought you would enjoy): “The life of Jesus Christ was revisited through the rose-colored glasses of the Resurrection”.
This idea was fascinating, and completely new, to me. That Jesus was just another pretend messiah *until* the Resurrection, which caused folks to believe he really was divine and look back on his life and see miracles and the work of god. But I still don’t understand (or I don’t recall) why people believed in the Resurrection any more than they believed Jesus’s feats while he was alive.
I agree that visions of the resurrected Jesus persuaded some of the original 12 Apostles that Jesus was the Messiah. But this did not at the same time make him immediately the divinely sent unique Son of God. And beliefs apparently varied and didn’t solidify for quite some time between various “Christian” communities.
Mark’s gospel perhaps had a special tinge for later reasons. Paula Fredriksen suggests that Mark makes Jesus deliberately try to mask his identity so that the unworthy (Jews as against the gentile Christians of Mark’s generation) should not repent and be “saved.” Lots of people don’t believe during Jesus’ life in Mark’s gospel that Jesus was the Messiah, despite the miracles. Even the original apostles in Mark don’t understand the obvious, which has to be repeated and explained. So the plot device was necessary because a lot of people were not convinced in Jesus’ life that he was the Messiah (let alone divine or the unique Son of God, rather than just a “generic” son of God as an anointed king). This could not be hidden – e.g. the references to Jesus’ family considering him insane, his cursing Chorazin, Capernaum, Bethsaida where he spent so much time for disbelief.
Resurrection = Visions of a heavenly body: No matter what the gospels say on the empty tomb and the physicality of the resurrected Jesus (e.g. the heavy stone closing the tomb opening had been moved,Thomas thrust his hand into the wounds!) Paul doesn’t mention the tomb at all and says clearly that the visions of Jesus were of a “pneumatikon soma” – spiritual body (whatever that means). Presumably, there was no difference in the nature of the appearance to him or to Peter, James, John, and the others of the 12. They all saw a presence, not a flesh and blood body. (According to the gospel account, not all the apostles were persuaded.) Paul even insists that flesh and blood cannot be resurrected as it is subject to decay, it’s not for immortality. But just like with Peter and (some) others of the original 12, Paul’s vision of an apparition was enough to convince him. Paul, without any direct contact with Jesus when alive, did make him out to be divine, the Son of God, etc. For Paul the magic of belief in Jesus’ resurrection would be an immortality medicine, preventing disease and death if taken in the right spirit. This was no longer about a Jewish Messiah restoring Israel or establishing a more just social order but a cosmic victory against “sin and death.”
Early traditions of Jesus as fully human/subservient to God: Not all early Christians were convinced. The Ebionites, from the accounts of them, were a Jewish Christian sect who never bought into the idea of the eternally pre-existent divine son with unique access to the Father. Whichever Christian groups used the Didache in the first century C.E. in Palestine, their Eucharist referred to Jesus as the “Servant” of the Lord and “Son of David” – i.e. Davidic Messiah, not as someone who was the Son of God or divine from eternity. They still expected (as Jesus had preached) the “Son of Man” to come on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory (link below) – after God had first appeared.
http://www.paracletepress.com/didache.html
Even with belief by some early Christians in the resurrection as a special taking up to heaven, what became orthodox belief in the divinity of Christ was not universal or self-evident. So there was still need for quite a bit of exhortation and confidence building in various communities of (Gentile) Christians, especially with the failure of the original mission to the Jews of Jesus and the 12 (for Jesus in the gospels the Jews were the “children” of the heavenly Father by comparison with the “dogs” who might, however, feed on crumbs fallen from the table).
Granted, there are stories antiquity in which, when someone is taken up to the heavens or to Heaven, he becomes or is made divine. Logically, that is no reason to think that everyone thought that when someone goes to heaven, they become divine. Today many religious people believe that the invisible souls of good people will go to Heaven. They will not become gods or divine. Are you saying no one saw things that way in antiquity? And if some did, then why would anyone assume that just because Jesus was resurrected and then became invisible and still existed in some way, that he would necessarily be divine? That makes no sense. Do you have a missing premise here? The debate might go on whether the saved will rise bodily or only in spirit at the end times but no one I know or have read is arguing that, if they rise as spirits to live eternally in Heaven with God, they would all then be divine or sit by God’s side? Why would Galilean Jews in Jerusalem after the crucifixion and resurrection have jumped to such conclusions?
I deal with this at length in nmy book. My point is that apocalyptic Jews had a certain understanding of the afterlife/resurrection, and you need to know what that understanding was in order to make sense of the conclusions they drew from their belief that Jesus had come back from the dead.
Thanks so much, Bart, for responding to my and our questions. It’s one more enormous commitment of your time among your many other enormous commitments. God, I’m glad to be retired.