My problems with the NRSV. One of the pleasures and difficulties I am finding with this blog is that it is oh so easy to get sidetracked from my original plan and intention. The current series of posts was originally a response to the question of how Bruce Metzger reacted to my loss of faith. (To anticipate the final answer: I don’t think he had much of a reaction at all!) But instead of dealing with that question directly, I decided to use it as an opportunity to talk about my long-term relationship with Metzger; this has occupied a large number of posts.
The most recent of those had to do with my work for/with him on the New Revised Standard Version. In response to those posts, several people have asked me questions about the NRSV, and now I am dealing with/ responding to these. But I promise: I will get back to the original question eventually!
Problems with the NRSV
On the NRSV, several people have wanted to know if I had problems with any of it. As I briefly mentioned in my earlier post – yes I do! Even though I do think it is the best translation available) There are two kinds of problems that I have:
- some have to do with the translation itself
- and others have to do with the Greek reading that the translators decided to translate.
I’ll deal with the first set of problems in two posts and the second in the next two posts.
What is Wrong with the NRSV Bible?
Every biblical scholar will have problems with the way translators have rendered this, that, or the other passage. Scholars disagree on everything! (Well, almost everything – there’s scarcely one who disagrees with the existence of Jesus for example)
There are a couple of passages that have always irritated me from the NRSV. If I dug harder, I’m sure I would find others. I almost never read the English Bible, so I don’t try to track down problems; like most scholars, I tend to read the Bible – especially the NT, my area of expertise, in the original language. But here, for what it’s worth, is the first of the two that I have found particularly problematic.
A Mistranslation?
John 3:22: “After this Jesus and his disciples went into the Judean countryside.” This is a mistranslation and I think it was probably motivated by a desire to keep John from sounding like it contains a discrepancy. I sometimes have my students look at John 2:23-3:22 and explain the geography. Because in fact, the geography doesn’t seem to “work.”
In 2:23 Jesus is in Jerusalem. While there, in Jerusalem, starting in 3:1, he has a conversation with the rabbi Nicodemus. He finishes this conversation in 3:21. And then we have the curious statement that the NRSV has been mistranslated. But the Greek actually says, “After this Jesus and his disciples went into the land of Judea.” (It is correctly translated in the RSV).
Why Do Mistranslations Matter?
And why does this translation matter? Because, of course, Jerusalem itself is in the land of Judea. And so it makes no sense to say that after his discussion with Nicodemus Jesus went into the land of Judea since he is already there! You get a similar problem in John 5 and 6; Jesus is in Jerusalem in chapter 5, and then at the beginning of ch. 6 we are told that he went to “the other side” of the Sea of Galilee. Well, he can’t go to the “other side” of the lake unless he is already on one of the sides, but according to the account, he is not – he is way down south, many miles away, in Jerusalem!
The reason for both of these geographical mistakes: the author of the Fourth Gospel has utilized various sources for his account and has spliced them together. When he has done so, he has inadvertently left “literary seams” that show what he has done. Almost no one notices these things unless someone points them out to them. But there they are.
NRSV – Problem Solved
But in the NRSV there is no problem any longer, because of the mistranslation (of 3:22) (6:1 is a problem even there – – there’s no way to get around the geographical faux pas by retranslating the passage in that case). The Greek of 3:22 says that they went into the “land” (GHN) of Judea, not into the Judean “countryside” (XWRIS).
This matters because if in fact Jesus and his disciples went into the countryside, it simply means that they left the city and went to the rural places outside. No contradiction. But if translated correctly, there is in fact a discrepancy. And I think there is no doubt at all about why the translators changed the RSV in this case. It was precisely to eliminate the possibility of the geographical discrepancy. But in mistranslating the phrase, they have done more harm than good. IMHO.
I use the NRSV, so this is interesting to me. Do you have any other technical/translation problems with it you can share?
Yup, on the way.
Out of curiostity, is John 3:22 a place where the text differs between MSS or is it consistant among the various MSS?
It is consistent.
The translation I dislike the most from the NRSV is Matthew 4:19 – “Follow me, and I will make you fish for people.”
It’s awkward, and it seems like they were going out of their way to avoid any allusion the the famous “fishers of men” from the KJV in order to underline gender neutrality. The NET “fishers of people” does that fine. This way it almost sounds like Jesus and the apostles are going to open a chippery 🙂
Was there alot of disagreement among the NRSV committee members about how to translate John 3:22?
I don’t know! I didn’t sit in on the NT discussions.
I wonder why the final redactor of John failed to smooth out these literary seams. I can understand for books like Genesis which also have striking literary seams, in particular duplicate accounts of the same stories, chose to leave the seams – it was a conscious effort to retain the traditions of the different communities. This doesn’t seem to be the case with John.
Surely some scribes who copied John over the centuries would have noticed the oddity in 3:22 and attempted their own smoothing, say by changing the word to “countryside” in the Greek?
Is there a difference between “land of Judea” and the more parsimonious “Judea”? Technically, “land of Judea” includes the countryside. Is there any precedent in any Greek text where the author uses “land of” to convey the countryside?
My guess is that he didn’t notice them, just as authors frequently don’t notice their little inconsistencies. And these are not all that obvious: most readers have never noticed them either!
In re, Greek text uses of “‘land of’ to convey the countryside”: Mark 1:5 (η ιουδαια χωρα), and Acts 13:19 (γη χανααν), appear to be two such verses in orthodox mss. of the Gospels and Acts.
Yes, this demonstrates my point. The word for countryside (as in Mark 1:5) is χωρα (XWRA); γη (GH) refers to a land — as in the Land of Canaan (Acts 13:19). John 3:22 uses GH.
When I look at the Greek wording of John 3:22 in P66, P75, TR, and W&H, I see the acc. sing. fem. noun ΓΗΝ (γην, root γη) that is variously (and very broadly) defined as the earth, land, arable farmland, country, region, soil, ground, and mankind. In P74 at Acts 13:19, the word used was ΓΗ (γη), a nom. sing. fem. noun that can also be broadly defined identically to John 3:22.
Accordingly, in my reading or these two verses, ΓΗ (γη) best refers to arable farmland; i.e., LAND that is “capable of being farmed productively” (WordWeb Dictionary). Aside from these usages of ΓΗ, I can only cite the comments of some others on how the root/word might be understood; e.g.:
1: “land of Judea — the rural parts of that province” (JFB);
2: “Into the land of Judea (eis tēn Ioudaian gēn) [=] Into the country districts outside of Jerusalem” (A.T. Robertson, WORD PICTURES IN THE NEW TESTAMENT; cp. περαν του ιορδανου, beyond the Jordan in John 3:26), and
3: “The land of Judaea (τὴν Ἱουδαίαν γῆν) … Literally, the Judaean land” (Marvin R. Vincent, D.D.,
Baldwin Professor of Sacred Literature, Union Theological Seminary, New York in VINCENT’S WORD STUDIES).
Antiquated references, perhaps. But, considering that I’ve been retired for several years now, I can no longer afford to update my personal library (although I recently did purchase Metzger’s 3rd ed. of THE NEW TESTAMENT–IT’S BCKGROUND, GROWTH, & CONTENT to replace the autographed 1st ed. that I mistakenly donated to a local library 🙁
Dr. Bart, you wrote: “John 3:22: ‘After this Jesus and his disciples went into the Judean countryside.’ This is a mistranslation ….”.
The consensus in various Bible versions and related commentaries I’ve consulted appears to be that “countryside” might not be a mistranslation, and that γῆ can correctly refer to the rural/country area of Judea outside Jerusalem. Also, the wording (in part) in P66 and P75 at John 3:26 (ΠΕΡΑΝ ΤΟΥ ΙΟΡΔΑΝΟΥ, or “beyond [across, over, on the other side of] the Jordan”) appears, IMHO, to clarify upon where Jesus went to/into at John 3:22 🙂
Where does γῆ have that meaning somewhere else? (It’s a genuine question)
Kindly refer to my posting of 09-08-2012, where I gave you a genuine answer 😀
I found the NRSV cultural backgrounds study Bible 2019, is this a good translation since 2012 have your problems with the NRSV been corrected?
The NRSV itself is the same now as it was in 2012; the study Bible gives the same translation but makes comments on it. I’m not familiar with that particular one.
Throckmorton’s “the Gospel Parallels” is that a useful tool for scholars and students
NRSV cultural backgrounds study Bible
Features:
The complete text of the New Revised Standard Version (Protestant canon), vetted by an ecumenical pool of Christian academics and renowned for its beautiful balance of scholarship and readability
2017 ECPA Bible of the Year Recipient
Targeted book introductions explain the context in which each book of the Bible was written
Insightful and informative verse-by-verse study notes reveal new dimensions of insight to even the most familiar passages
Key Old Testament (Hebrew) and New Testament terms are explained and expanded upon in two helpful reference features
Over 300 in-depth articles on key contextual topics
375 full-color photos, illustrations, and images from around the world
Dozens of charts, maps, and diagrams in vivid color
Words of Jesus in red
Cross references, NRSV Authorized Concise Glossary and Concordance, indexes, and other helps for Bible study
Exclusive Zondervan NRSV Comfort Print® typeface
10-point print size
About the Author
Craig S. Keener (PhD, Duke University) is F. M. and Ada Thompson Professor of Biblical Studies at Asbury Theological Seminary in Wilmore, Kentucky. He is the author of more than twenty-five books, including Miracles: The Credibility of the New Testament Accounts, The Historical Jesus of the Gospels, and commentaries on Matthew, John, Acts, Romans, 1 and 2 Corinthians, Galatians, and Revelation. Especially known for his work on the New Testament in its early Jewish and Greco-Roman settings, Craig is the author of award-winning IVP Bible Background Commentary: New Testament and the New Testament editor for the NIV Cultural Backgrounds Study Bible.
John H. Walton (PhD, Hebrew Union College) is professor of Old Testament at Wheaton College Graduate School. He is the author or coauthor of several books, including Chronological and Background Charts of the Old Testament; Ancient Israelite Literature in Its Cultural Context; Covenant: God’s Purpose, God’s Plan; The IVP Bible Background Commentary: Old Testament; and A Survey of the Old Testament.
Yes, I’ve known Craig Keener for years. He is very learned and very conservative. And now that you’ve informed me about this edition, I can tell you that its annotations would have been done by conservative evangelicals who believe in the inerrancy of the Bible, if that matters at all to you.
Not really, I have your books, your textbook on the NT and Jesus the apocalyptic prophet, books by Dever and others if that matters.
What’s your opinion of the NSV and NET?
I don’t think I’ve heard of the NSV and I haven’t studied the NET. Sorry!
I’m sorry the ESV not NSV
Haven’t studied that one either!
Dear Dr. Ehrman,
What do you think of the coming updates for the NRSV (aka, NRSV-UE)? I’ve looked into them and feel mixed-to-negative, but wondering your thoughts. Thanks! 😀
– Rob
I haven’t looked at them extensively yet. But it’s kinda like when a NT scholar watches a Jesus movie. She almost ALWAYS is critical….