JAS said
Not enough followers to persecute by Paul’s time, then not much value in lying to them either.

  

Please think.

The sales pitch is not to them, he was persecuting them, it will be used in the future, even until this day:

I, Paul, converted, so should you.
Paul converted: that is the power of Gee-SUS ! ! !

I want you to convert, today. Walk down the aisle. Come to Jesus, just as you are, even if you are just as Paul was, even if you are a persecutor of Christians, even if you are not affiliated with a Christian church, even if you are agnostic, or atheist, or anti-Christian or anti-Christ.

Just as you are.

Jesus can convert his archenemy, he can save you, too.

“To restore the beauty of holiness to the face of the Bride of Christ, which is terribly disfigured by so many abominable crimes, and if we truly want to free the Church from the fetid swamp into which she has fallen, we must have the courage to tear down the culture of secrecy and publicly confess the truths we have kept hidden.” These bold words from the pen of an archbishop in exile—part of a bombshell exposé published in August 2018 concerning Theodore McCarrick and his circle—catapulted the ecclesiastical diplomat Carlo Maria Viganò to international prominence. In a steady stream of interventions from that time onward, Archbishop Viganò has not only supplied further incriminating details on the current Vatican regime but has extended his critique to the neo-modernism and worldly accommodation that officially entered the Church through the Second Vatican Council. He argues, moreover, that just as there is a “deep state” of wealthy and powerful international elites who exercise enormous sway over political affairs and cultural vectors, so too there is a “deep church” that retains for its advantage the external trappings of religion while pursuing an agenda of error and moral corruption. These pseudo-sovereignties closely collaborate as they work for the same goals, which are, at this point, an open secret.

From the book description for Archbishop Vigano’s book listed below

Next payment from being a writer, I am buying and reading

a Glenn Beck book that has more than 2500 ratings averaging 4.25 stars,
a Peter Schweizer book that has more than 2500 ratings  averaging 4.25 star or more, and
Robert Kennedy, Jr.’s book that has more than 10,000 ratings averaging 5 stars
a Voice in the Wilderness … Vigano on the Church, America, and the World, 153 ratings averaging 5 stars

An argumentation specialist and nonfiction book author of my caliber must spend his argumentation time frugally and wisely, being aware what other investigators, argumentation specialists, truth-seekers, successful writers and editors are doing. Besides, I have finished eight recorded lectures and I have another book to be coached by professional reviewers (another $350 – $700 dollars) before self-publishing that book. With Historical Accuracy, experience as an instructor, and a second book, my momentum and status in on a higher plateau.

The four books above will inform my comments and help me take on discussion opponents.

I will periodically check in on the forums here for attractive discussions/viewpoints. I do say, Yes: I will be spending my time speeding up my progress in my endeavors which include the four books above and

The New Moses by Dale Alison [I did not formally list Moses as one of the figures composing the Greco-Roman-Jewish invention of Jesus of the gospels. For the second edition of Historical Accuracy, I want something of high quality by Alison in my composite Jesus argument]

Two books on Marcion

The Gospel of Mark and the Roman Jewish War of 66-70 CE [since the gospels are post-war literature, at least]

So, eight books to read with two that are very important: The Gospel of Mark and the Jewish Revolt and the case Alison makes for Jesus as a new Moses. Who knows how much time my course administrators will demand of me, let alone my students. When my second book is reviewed, who knows what career obligations are going to come with that–in addition to the video editing touchups I have to do on earlier lectures when I didn’t have some skill tools I picked up and used in later lectures. (I really want the corporate clients with their employees in addition to individuals who take my course.)

= = =

JAS said
I don’t even think it would make a bad movie, let alone a good one. Again, what payoff could mid-1rst century Paul anticipate? If I am really successful, maybe I can be persecuted and even martyred by Nero? The whole premise is utterly absurd.

  

That’s your faulty opinion as well. I agree to disagree with both of you.
It certainly is absurd to hold that opinion not knowing the extent of Saul’s persecution.
I have reviewed movies for a college newspaper after meeting with directors and actors. I have also taken scriptwriting classes. I have attended talks at the 92nd Street Y and The Tribeca Film Festival. You cannot recount Saul’s alleged persecutions of followers of Jesus. You don’t have a bad movie, you do not have even a scene.

I’m glad I am less available to encourage you. Even if I did not have other things to do. Paul’s persecution in his epistles and in Acts, is not convincing. Question everything and go with sure answers. Definitely do not go with claims that cannot be sufficiently recounted.

No recounting of the persecution at Galatians 1:13.

No recounting of the persecution at Philippians 3:6

No recounting of the persecution at 1 Corinthians 15:9

This is why Robert and JAS agree with me that looking at the epistles of Paul do not inform the reader who specifically was persecuted, how, and the extent of the damage.

Bart D.E.
Modern people and some scholars claim that it was Paul himself who started Christianity. I think that is going too far, in fact maybe way too far, for reasons that will become apparent in this post and the next.

Steve Campbell, author of Historical Accuracy
Josephus wrote three passages in Antiquities that easily delineate 1) Christological tenets 2) exploiting those who would believe a man portrayed as Son of God (Anubis, son of the Egyptian God, Osiris, who ushers souls into the afterlife) sacrificed himself for the world (Decius Mundus) and 3) a Paul figure who was a Jew, driven away from his country because of accusations of transgressing Law. This Paul figure went to Rome and instructed men in the wisdom of the Laws of Moses–perhaps the New Moses, Jesus [Dale Alison has written a book on the subject, The New Moses.] The Paul figure and three men of same character exploited pious people to send purple and gold to the Temple at Jerusalem. Paul in the New Testament sent money to Jerusalem for a community of Jesus followers. Josephus explains in Antiquities that the purple and gold was employed for the four men’s own uses.

Christological tenets as exploitation?

= = =

The above comment of less than 200 words, posted to Bart’s May30th, 2016 post: Paul as a Persecutor of the Church
** you do not have permission to see this link **

Steefen said
Bart D.E.

Modern people and some scholars claim that it was Paul himself who started Christianity. I think that is going too far, in fact maybe way too far, for reasons that will become apparent in this post and the next.

Steve Campbell, author of Historical Accuracy

Josephus wrote three passages in Antiquities that easily delineate 1) Christological tenets 2) exploiting those who would believe a man portrayed as Son of God (Anubis, son of the Egyptian God, Osiris, who ushers souls into the afterlife) sacrificed himself for the world (Decius Mundus) and 3) a Paul figure who was a Jew, driven away from his country because of accusations of transgressing Law. This Paul figure went to Rome and instructed men in the wisdom of the Laws of Moses–perhaps the New Moses, Jesus [Dale Alison has written a book on the subject, The New Moses.] The Paul figure and three men of same character exploited pious people to send purple and gold to the Temple at Jerusalem. Paul in the New Testament sent money to Jerusalem for a community of Jesus followers. Josephus explains in Antiquities that the purple and gold was employed for the four men’s own uses.

Christological tenets as exploitation?

= = =

The above comment of less than 200 words, posted to Bart’s May30th, 2016 post: Paul as a Persecutor of the Church

** you do not have permission to see this link **

  

Bart D.E.
Not sure what you are referring to with any of these three points. Dale Allison’s book is about the Gospel of Matthew.

Steve Campbell, author of Historical Accuracy

I was personally unknown, however, to the churches of Judea that are in Christ.…

Galatians 1: 21

Steve Campbell, author of Historical Accuracy

I found some answers that neither Robert, JAS, nor Stephen nor anyone else put forward in this discussion.

I asked what did Paul do? What was the nature of his persecution in Judea after the death of Stephen?

Acts 8:3 says he went from house to house, dragged off men and women and put them in prison.

This is the advantage of following the discussion as opposed to straying off topic.