The pdf shows Hulgren with a “T”: Hultgren: Paul’s Pre-Christian Persecutions.

Steve Campbell, Author of Historical Accuracy
With Paul not persecuting the Jerusalem “Church” (a Hellenistic term) of the disciples remaining after Jesus’ ascension, who was he persecuting?
To begin with, Acts says he approved the persecution of the Hellenist Christian leader, Stephen. Extending that and if “I persecuted” has truth,
there were Hellenist Christians outside of Judea and Galilee.

Arland Hultgren / Wagner College Staten Island
[Saul] looks upon “Judaism” and the “church” as split into two recognizable communities. Saul opposed the Church (a Hellenistic term, not synagogues in Judea and Galilee that may have adopted some of the teachings of Jesus). Saul opposed the Church [for argument sake, let’s say the proselyte Queen Helena with ties back to Edessa heard of Jesus and back in Edessa, not only did some people follow her in adopting Judaism, they also adopted some of the teachings of Jesus] as a movement outside of Judaism, its parent body, i.e., as a rival religion.

Saul would have seen the Christian movement subject to Jewish authority. Paul, outside of his Jewish community, would see his new community no longer subject to the parent body of Judaism–made clear by his stance on the Law and circumcision.

Bart D.E.
I’m not sure what you’re asking. Are you asking who actually fulfilled the prophecy of Deuteronony 18? I’m not sure who the author had in mind any one person; possibly he is simply referring to future prophets.

Steefen
Given:
The New Moses: A Matthean Typology by Dale Allison

We agree Dale Allison’s book is about 1) The New Moses and 2) the gospel of Matthew.

Dale writes about three times the Moses story is mirrored by the author of Matthew writing about Jesus:

a) Pharaoh slaughtered infants because of Moses / Herod the Great slaughtered infants because of Jesus.

b) Before the midwives came at the birth of Moses ** you do not have permission to see this link **

c) Allison analyzes the ten miracles of Matthew chapters 8 and 9 as a link to the ten plagues of exodus

Part II of Dale’s book: “The New Moses in Matthew”
Appendix IV: The New Moses and the Son of God
p. 6 of the book’s introduction: [The gospel of Matthew is a new whole made out of old pieces.]

Made out of the Old Moses is the New Moses, the Jesus in the gospel of Matthew. There was an old Passover and covenant with Moses and a new Passover and covenant with Jesus.

QUESTIONS:
Jesus represented a new covenant for Paul, yes?
Bart D.E.: Yes

It is not uncommon in scholarly literature (not only with Dale) to see comparisons between Moses and Jesus, yes?
Bart D.E.: Yes (for Matthew’s Gospel).  But Dale did it more thoroughly than had happened before him.

Robert said

Steefen said

Robert

Isn’t that essentially what Bart said to you?

Steefen

I want more. I want at least two scholarly articles and at least two scholarly book/s concluding Paul was not persecuting in Judea.

Go ahead and look for them, but you won’t find consensus and certitude, unless its of your own making. You will find scholars on both sides of this question. Some (eg, Hultgren JBL March 1976) will still want to interpret Paul’s words in such a way that they do not contradict the later account in Acts. Others (eg, Haenchen, Bart) will be more skeptical of the account in Acts and interpret Paul at ‘face’ (!) value. 

  

Robert, thank you. Hultgren answered one of the questions.

What was the nature of the persecution?

Answer: The possibilities were imprisonment or flogging.

(pick up at pages 105-111)

Now Stephen, who was full of grace and power, was performing great wonders and signs among the people.

But resistance arose from what was called the Synagogue of the Freedmen, including Cyrenians, Alexandrians, and men from the provinces of Cilicia and Asia.

Then they prompted some men to say, “We heard Stephen speak words of blasphemy against Moses and against God.”

So they stirred up the people, elders, and scribes and confronted Stephen. They seized him and brought him before the Sanhedrin

For we have heard him say that Jesus of Nazareth will destroy this place and change the customs that Moses handed down to us.

Acts Chapter 6

St. Stephen:
You stiff-necked people with uncircumcised hearts and ears! You always resist the Holy Spirit, just as your fathers did.

Result: the Sanhedrin stoned him to death.

Steve Campbell, Author of Historical Accuracy
Hultgren should have mentioned this. Persecution did include killing. The Sanhedrin set an example for Saul the persecutor.

Stephen said
If the Sanhedrin were able to have Stephen stoned why didn’t they have Jesus stoned instead of turning him over to the Romans?

  

The Babylonian Talmud agrees, according to the book, Jesus in the Talmud by Schafer–Jesus was stoned and hanged.

Google, where is information about Paul’s Persecution of Christians / biblehub Paul’s Persecution of Christians in his letters

Undisputed Authorship of the Pauline Epistles according to Wikipedia – Authentic Pauline Epistles

** you do not have permission to see this link **

** you do not have permission to see this link **

Undisputed and Disputed Authorship of the Pauline Epistles according to Wikpedia – Deutero-Pauline Epistles, May Be Authentic

** you do not have permission to see this link **

Robert
Apparently, you think there are only five (not seven) letters of Paul that are authentic. Are you claiming that one or two of these three letters is inauthentic? If so, why?

Steefen

Wikipedia (First Epistle to the Corinthians entry) reports First Corinthians contains a passage that is widely believed to have been ** you do not have permission to see this link ** into the text by a later scribe:

As in all the churches of the saints, women should be silent in the churches. For they are not permitted to speak, but should be subordinate, as the law also says. If there is anything they desire to know, let them ask their husbands at home. For it is shameful for a woman to speak in church.

— Bible 1 Corinthians 14:34–35, NRSV

The verses are included in all extant manuscripts. Part of the reason for suspecting that this passage is an interpolation is that in several manuscripts in the Western tradition, it is placed at the end of Chapter 14, instead of at its canonical location. This kind of variability is generally considered by textual critics to be a sign that a note, initially placed in the margins of the document, has been copied into the body of the text by a scribe.^{** you do not have permission to see this link **}

The passage also has been taken to contradict 11:5, where ** you do not have permission to see this link **

Robert said

Steefen said

Third question: any Jesus community outside of Judea and Galilee claiming Jesus was the Way is using ** you do not have permission to see this link **? What else could they be using? 

Robert

I don’t understand your question, or its relevance to this discussion. 

Steefen

Saul was persecuting those following the Way. The Way is mentioned at John 14: 6. But what is a better reference?

Luke indicates in Acts that before the followers of Jesus were first known as ‘Christians’ in Antioch (11,26), the movement was simply referred to as ‘the Way’ (18,25 19,9 19,23 24,14.22; cf also Mt 7,13). I’ve always thought that this was likely derived from the Hebrew term הלכה (halakhah), which literally means ‘the walking’ and is used for specific teachings on how one is to understand and follow the law of Moses. I’m told Amy Jill Levine also supports this view. Others, eg, Jeffrey P. García, think ‘the Way’ might be derived more literally from the Hebrew term דרך (derek) which is translated ‘way’. He finds this term also used similarly by later rabbis. It’s possible that John 14,6 reflects a a later christoloical adaptation of this earlier usage.

  

1 Luke 18: 25 easier for a camel to walk though city gates than a rich man to enter the Kingdom

2 Matthew 7: 13 Take the narrow Way not the broad Way (probably from the Sermon on the Mount)

3 Luke 19: 9 Herod wishes to see Jesus

4 Luke 19: 23-24 verse from Parable of Ten Minas

5 Luke 14:22 verse from Parable of the Banquet

Steefen
Given the story of Jesus in the gospels, it is a stretch to sum following Jesus as simply “the Way.”
I could see, maybe, the Way to pass Judgement for entering the Kingdom of the Son of Man.
First, the followers of Jesus inside and outside of Judea and Galilee would have to be convinced
of the Apocalyptic Formula of John the Baptist and Jesus: Repentance followed by Tribulation followed by Judgement followed by Kingdom.

Maybe your 1 and 2 can, in a small way, be picked up for a hook slogan for Jesus followers. Personally, the Way better refers to Daoism.

Robert said
Not the gospel of Luke, but Luke’s second volume: Acts 18,25 19,9 19,23 22,4 & 24,14.

  

I am looking for something before the gospel of John was written.

I look at the Acts verses when I get a chance.

Saul persecuting people of the Way would need that term established during the alleged life of Jesus of the late 20s to no later than 33 CE when Paul allegedly was persecuting the Church of God.